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Phoenix Condo Drama in Clarendon Continues.  Is This Opportunity???

Early purchasers in the Phoenix Condo contacted me several months ago with complaints about prices and quality of construction and now about half are trying to get out of their contracts.  The original article on this subject after several owners reached out to me for advice on extricating themselves from their contracts while not forfeiting their initial 5% deposits of $20,000+ is here:  Sun Sets on the Phoenix Condo at Noon


phoenix condo near clarendon

At that time the buyer referred to below, Joetta, had written me a long email to post that I later removed by the request of she and her attorney.  Here's the most recent update on it from this article in the Washington Business Journal:

Strapped Buyers Want Out of Phoenix Condominium

Washington Business Journal - September 14, 2007 by Prabha Natarajan  Staff Reporter (click Prabha's name for other articles written by her)

In the summer heat of 2005, Bryan and Laura Orme stood in line for two hours outside the Clarendon Ballroom to get an appointment with an agent who sold them a two-bedroom condominium.

Today, they are making appointments with a lawyer, hoping to pull out without losing a deposit they put down for their unit at The Phoenix at Clarendon Metro, a high-rise that is part of the redevelopment of the post office at 3118 Washington Blvd. in Arlington.

"We can't afford it anymore," said Laura Orme, who, along with her husband, signed the purchase contract and put down a deposit of $32,500 for the $651,000 condo.

The Phoenix, a complex with 181 units, has seen 90 such cases of potential owners with cold feet, according to the developer. [ I highlighted this myself ]

The downturn in the residential market is affecting buyers as well as developers of condos. People like the Ormes got hit by the change in temperature in the residential market both as buyers and sellers. Buyers have no legal recourse to pursue their complaints. Attorneys say the contracts people signed during the heyday of the condo boom tend to favor developers. Without any other options, buyers can only walk away and lose their deposits.

The Ormes expected their South Riding townhouse to fetch $474,000, the price their lender thought the unit would get in 2005. When they listed their home last year, there was no deal even after they reduced the price to $417,000.

Other buyers complain they cannot get appraisers to match the quoted prices of a new unit because today's market conditions have driven valuations down. Lower appraisal values mean borrowers get loans that are not enough to pay for the unit.

Keating, the Philadelphia-based developer of The Phoenix, is taking a tough stance against recalcitrant buyers. The company has not stopped people from walking away from their units, but it is firm on keeping the 5 percent deposit already paid and collecting the remaining 5 percent of the deposit that was supposed to be paid at closing.

"People lose their money in the stock market, and they expect that," said Bob Diamond, an attorney with Reed Smith LLP who represents Keating. "With real estate, it's like they expect their [money] back if the market turns south. The Phoenix has taken a strong position that if you don't close, they keep the deposit. They are disappointed they now have to resell the units."

The condominium developer would not disclose how many units it has left to sell.

Dozens of potential condo owners have tried to get out of The Phoenix project. However, not all of them wanted out because of declining market conditions. Some say they were disappointed with the quality of the construction and unit.

"When my husband and I walked into what was to be our unit, we were convinced we were in the wrong unit," said Joetta Sack-Min.

"The walls weren't painted. They had gashes on them, The cabinet was the wrong color wood, so were the hardwood floors. The bedroom carpet had huge stains. The dishwasher had a dent. We couldn't believe they wanted us to inspect the unit in this state and close on it."

The Sack-Mins do not want to close on their unit either and are talking to a lawyer about ways to get out of the contract and, if possible, get their deposit back. The couple put down $22,000 for a one-bedroom unit, valued at $442,000.

The Sack-Mins are putting the money they lined up for this unit toward the purchase of another unit in The Hawthorn in Ballston by Monument Realty, where the Ashburn couple expect to move in the next month or two.

"We haven't sold our home yet, just in case," Sack-Min said.

For the Ormes, there is no solution on the horizon yet. The couple rented out their townhouse in South Riding and are living with Laura Orme's parents.

What Does this Mean for Condo Purchasers?

What is interesting to consider is when will these disputed units hit the market?  Will they be listed?  I've requested a price sheet and an update in when units will be released for sale again.  I doubt they like me there...or maybe they don't even know me.  I wonder????  What I really wonder is what is the quality of construction of the Phoenix Condo?  That's my big question along with sales price.  Generally units smaller than 700 sq ft. are worth in the lower 400s and usually in the upper 300s....So if they expect to sell a 1BR for $442,000 with only 700 sq. ft. or less, they are way off.  sad face

Anybody else have feedback on Phoenix condo or know some details.  Contact me if interested in more info on Phoenix by filling in this plugoo form with your info.

For more info on the condo market search market reports of Arlington VA Condos.

Peace out,

jay

 


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Date: Thursday, September, 20th 2007 @ 08:31:26 AM
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This blog entry currently has 34 comments posted.

SAZ

Hi Jay.
I've contacted you in July asking for advice to get out or standby with the Phoenix contract. I was ready to get out with deposit because my lawyer told me that I don't have any chance to get my 5% deposits back. On the same time I was fed with staying in my old place - dilapidated efficiency on the first floor where I could walk in directly from the street. Two weeks before settlement I did the intensive search on the available new and almost new condos in the Ballston-Clarendon corridor and didn’t find anything that I like and compatible in price + 23K of loosing deposit. So I’ve decided to buy. I’ve moved in on Aug 4 and was robed again. I’ve been forced to use the moving company the seller recommended - Town and Countries. This company was chosen as moving coordinator and their requirements were almost impossible to follow. So other movers told me ‘NO’ as soon as they heard who is the moving coordinator. So I’ve paid 0 for small efficiency apartment to move.
There were several things that were not fixed from my inspection list but they fixed all of them later. Now I’m pretty satisfied with the quality, amenities and very convenient location. I’m working in DC and Clarendon metro is 3 min away. I found a short way to the bicycle trail along I-66 where I’m walking from time to time. The bottom lime I’m not regretting that I’ve move in.
The kind of trouble I have is the number of units occupied in Phoenix. It is very low – I think 10-15%. 90% of the time I’m always alone in the elevator and I’m pretty sure that nobody is living on my floor besides me.
I know from the very reliable source that a week ago 81 units out of 181 were settled but much less out of 81 was moved in. So if the seller starts to sell units by market price our units values will go down immediately and cannot be compared with the price of other units. I think the seller should somehow compensate us in this case.
SAZ

jcasetnl

You said:

"I know from the very reliable source that a week ago 81 units out of 181 were settled but much less out of 81 was moved in. So if the seller starts to sell units by market price our units values will go down immediately and cannot be compared with the price of other units. I think the seller should somehow compensate us in this case. "

Why should the seller compensate you? If the market had continued to appreciate, should the seller expect you to compensate them? If you go to vegas and lose at the tables, does the casino give you your losses back? Anyone with financial sense wisely stayed out of this mania. People looking to get rich quick gambled. Some made out, but now we have a whole lot of bag-holders saying they deserve to be compensated.

million

i completely agree w/ jcasetnl, the specuvestors (they didn't sell their house, SURRRRRE they were going to move into a condo and not try to flip it) are really just bitter that the pie-in-the-sky dream sold to them by the REIC and enabled by the lenders has blown up in their wallets. the risk materialized, chalk it up as a lesson learned.

Jay Seville

I would just say to keep in mind that is likely the great majority of people who purchased in Phoenix were regular, good and hard working people and were not "specuvestors".

million

sure thing, Jay. hey it's also a great time to buy! right?

Jay Seville

Million, what's your deal? I've told several people not to buy this year or to walk away from certain buildings/opportunities all together. If going to be such a vituperative spirit on this blog just bail so we don't have to hear it anymore. There are plenty of bubblicious blogs out there where that mentality is more welcome.

As I tell me 3 and 5 year olds, don't come back till you've found your happy heart

Seriously, though, the baseless insinuations don't cut it here. There are real people who bought homes at the peak and are hurting now due to unexpected events or moves. I wrote an article at the end of 2005 telling people not to buy a new condo. Of course the article itself should have been written about 6 months before, but still many buyers could have been helped by that advice except for the fact nobody knew who I was.

I've got 2 people on the phone today who are upside down and hurting and they are real people going through changing events in their lives. And they are trapped to some degree and it's very tough for them. One of them is a family stuck in a condo with a $725/month fee that lost 15% of it's value.

The point is, Million, I allow plenty of view points here. What's not going to be tolerated is an A-hole attitude. And that's how you come across so clean it up from this point forward please. I like having different perspectives around.

Peace out,
J

million

my attitude's a product of your own profession's marketing, Jay.

SAZ

Jay is 100% right. I was not and I am not a specuvestor. And I was misunderstood. The seller didn\'t tell us the truth about was going on with the selling process. Two week before my settlement the seller reps told me that almost all units either settled or ready to be settled. My appraiser report came much short in price and I was planning to quit but because of this lie I\'ve stayed. If I knew that only 10%-15% units were really sold I will better to left my deposit and got away. Last weekend it was the open house and I got prove that the prices dropped >10%. My deposit was 5% so I could walk away with loosing it but then came this weekend and still could have a better (+5%) deal. It was a lot of secrecy in Phoenix with us - clients and this is what I\'m complaining of. The compensation could come in the different form - like we are not paying the condo fee for September. The seller sent us the letter with kind of apology that some amenities were not ready and forfeiting one month of a condo fee is compensation.
SAZ

Sean

Has anyone heard about the restaurant that is going in on the first floor of this building, its a great location!

www.dcmetrocentric.com

Sean

rarebucky

This is a nice building but I would advise everyone interested to wait awhile as they will surely drop prices more. Right now most units are still priced higher than where 1021 units are closing and k for a second spot is way overpriced.

rarebucky

$42k for a 2nd spot

C

By the way, the developer, who refused to make any concessions to anyone, for any reason, is now paying condo fees through November. They are doing so because most ameneties are not yet ready for use. While I do appreciate it, I wish they had agreed to do this up front before closing so pre-construction buyers like myself didn't have to close with such a bad taste in our mouths. Any concession... even the $1,000 or so I'm saving from these condo fees, would have made me feel a lot better about the whole process. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Jay Seville

Thought I'd throw in a copy of what one owner posted on the other post on the Phoenix condo article: http://www.justnewlistings.com/arlington-virginia-blog/jay-seville/the-sun-sets-on-the-phoenix-condo-at-noon/show/

"Jane Doe

What everyone fails to realize is that the sales team (McWilliams Ballard) is more on the dishonest end than anyone else involved in the development and management team here at the Phoenix. After settling I walked through several open houses and read the literature only to realize that the prices have dropped so dramatically that there is no way to recoup any loss. The sales agents are very slippery and clearly evasive. I asked them why half of the items on our punchlist weren't done and they insisted that nothing was wrong with the unit. I have a window that was obviously meant to be a sliding door, it has latches and is installed on a track. Apparently the measurements taken were all incorrect at time of installation so they slapped up walls and let it go. Every time I hear them schmooze and suck in prospective buyers, I want to scream, "DON'T DO IT!" Also comes the designing factor. I have no idea who put the sales team in charge of the interior decorating, but they have no clue how to match color schemes, they put up used books in the library that are obviously trashed, pictures that are obviously scarred and not new, and obviously cheap accessories.

I don't quite understand why I haven't been able to get through to the development team that the sales team is only hurting them. Any other residents, please feel free to post as I know you have some of the same concerns."

Jay Seville

I'm headed to Phoenix condo today to get a look for myself. If any of you want to show me something in your units as an example of bogus quality feel free to email me promptly. I like knowing the truth....

I do know that often when it comes to the internet the dissatisfied people make comments and the silent majority do nothing. So to be objective about everything I need to see these myself.

What did you all pay for them? A 1BR now lists for $353,000 and 2/2 for $535,000. That's much lower for great location than other buildings that are brand new...much less older ones that try to sell for that price and higher.

Is the building still mostly empty? Update me if you can everybody....

anon

Curious to see you post your thoughts on here Jay. I think the building is actually quite nice. Much nicer than Clarendon 1021 next door and pretty nice amenities. I think the prices are okay but the parking price for a second spot is what is holding me back.

Jay Seville

Anon, I spent an hour there yesterday. I agree that it's nicer than C-1021....I will hopefully post a full blog on this by Wed. with photos and thoughts....

My offer is still out there...I want to know what others paid for their units and if you have examples of shoddy work to show me....Contact me with your email/phone through the contact menu button at top of page and we'll go from there.

anon

What do you think of the prices and the layouts? Specifically 2 bedrooms? I didn't see any "shoddy" workmanship when I was there at all. Like I said before, I thought it was really nice.

C

I paid $419,000 for a 1 bedroom... and I'm sick to my stomach right now reading that they are listing for $353,000. That's much, much lower than I thought they would go, which is why I went ahead and settled. Wow... I'm stunned.

Jay Seville

Wait, C! Don't freak out. That's one particular unit and it does not represent most of their listings at all....Most of their 1BR brand new are around $385-420,000. So don't jump to any conclusions till you find out more about the particular listings.

anon

Jay, what are your thoughts on the two bedroom floorplans and prices?

saz

I've paid 454,900 for 770 sqf one bedroom on 11 floor. My (pretty accurate) estimation shows that they dropped the prices more than 10% already and still couldn’t sell all of the units. Open houses parties, vines and snacks didn’t help. The buyers are distressed now even with the prices plummeting down.
As I've said before I could get out from the contract with 5% deposit, come now and still be a winner with 5% in my pocket. They didn't tell us the truth about how many people are going to settlement and how many don’t. They kept it as a very big secret for the real estate market. None of the real estate brokers whom I worked very intensively before the settlement could provide me the inside information about what's going on in Phoenix condo. But it’s a done deal, I have to live with it and look forward, enjoy the live and people around me. I’m absolutely sure that the market will pick up in 2-3 years,
The credit crunch converts to the credit availability and the prices for our condos will go up.
The eternal three laws of the real estate – location, location and location should prevail this short living momentum in the real estate.

Jay Seville

Anon, I'm hoping to blog about this topic in depth this afternoon. The 2BR/2BA as selling for $540-550ish at Clarendon 1021. At Station Square the 2/2s mostly sell between $550ish-$580,000. Keep in mind Station Square is a better condo than 1021 in my opinion for various reasons--my home inspector definitely agrees with that. And of course at Odyssey they sell for $550,000-650,000 depending on what floor, view, and upgrades it has.

That being said, the 2/2 I saw at Phoenix Condo for $550,000 was looking really good....I saw too many to remember the floorplans too well. One of them had the bedrooms very separated from the general living area more so than I've ever seen for that size and I thought was a pretty cool floorplan. A higher ratio of the units have lots of skyline and light to offer versus 1021. Supposedly a commercial builder Keating constructed the building. And commercial builders supposedly = better construction. But I've been lied to by McWilliams Ballard before so I want to research this....

Anon, if interested contact me through my contact button with a phone # and perhaps I can save you some money if interested or here it is 703-624-3270.

I'd rather pay the lowest possible for the same or better product in the best location. However keep in mind many 2/2s at Phoenix were priced higher than $550. So if you own in a surrounding building this new condo will impact you, but to what degree remains to be seen. It will certainly delay prices from rising in my opinion in surrounding builings due to increased supply. It's a similar situation of 1800 Wilson that impacted prices all around. Only the Phoenix is in a much better location.

My main concern is what are the implications of only 42 of 182ish units having become owner occupied. They are a long way off from being able to hand this off to a condo association. If they keep their limited releases up like 1800 Wilson did they should be able to hold pretty steady with prices now that they corrected from the original prices SAZ quotes above. Supposedly they have sold 5 and 6 the last 2 weeks.

Again if you want one call me for representation as I'm a realtor. I just want to check with a real estate attorney about 1 question I have on the situation at Phoenix....

Comment has been posted.

Jay Seville

SAZ, thanks for giving us the big picture on this with what you paid. the tax records are so far behind in Arlington that it's frustrating for consumers not having the latest info on hand to use for big decisions. Bogus.

anon

I think in the long run the units here will do better than Station Square because of the amenities and I personally don't think there is any comparison to 1021 which has inferior rental finishes and is too big (which is why the condo fees are low). It seems like there are a lot of college kids (or recent grads) who live at 1021 vs. an older demographic at Phoenix. My 2 cents.

Jon

Ouch, this sounds like a rough story for all involved. I definitely sympathize with the buyer who couldn\'t get the truth as to how many units were actually sold.

I agree, if I was ever in a situation where I had a 5% deposit down and there were only 20% sold after delivery I would have just walked away from my deposit, and then returned to the same building 3 months later to buy at a discount.

As a potential Rosslyn - Clarendon corridor buyer it\'s horror stories like this, and tales of nearly empty condos, that are keeping me out of the market for now



I wouldn\'t be so sure. The bulk of the ARM resets haven\'t even hit yet. Most projections show the peak hitting in March 2008. Figure that it will take a few months after the rest for reality to set in, and then that takes you to the summer seasonal real estate market with just tons of inventory being dumped on an already saturated market. It will definitely take more than a couple of years for that to shake out

Jay Seville

Jon, read my post at the top of the real estate blog to learn more opinions of the building. The market is less "saturated" now than a year ago if you look at inventory. Just like 1800 Wilson sold out (at least 95%) The Phoenix at Clarendon Metro will sell out as the prices are reasonable and it's a better product than most out there.

When you're ready to view some condos and learn market values of them contact me at the contact button above.

jay

Ed

my wife and i went to the open house yesterday and we are considering giving them an offer for a 2 bedroom/den. we will offer lower price than they have listed and will see what the devloper's answer is going to be. though we will think for the next few days on the offering price. any suggestions what we need to consider? thank you!

Jay Seville

Ed, I'm a realtor and I have a lot to say about your offer at The Phoenix. I'm confident I can save you some money.
--jay 703-624-3270

Bridget

na

Kevin

hi jay, thank you for your insight on the phoenix. i do agree, you have to like this building. i notice a listng at 9,900 currently. do you happen to know, is this the bottom end of their offerings, and will they make any concessions in...price, finishes, closing help, etc?

Jay Seville

Kevin you'll have to call me for that info...703-624-3270.

Kevin

....that should read "listing at $359,900"

Amit Nara

Hi Jay,

What is your opinion about Palatine at Courthouse? My brother put deposit in 2005 for a 1br on 4th floor for 454K. It is suppose to be delivered in Sep 2008 and he is thinking of walking out of the contract.

Abil

Jay Seville

amit contact me here with the square footage of the unit at palatine--I do hope that is an 820+ sq. ft unit and not a teeny 675 sq ft. And let me know what the deposit is--$9000?
http://www.justnewlistings.com/contact.html

Stay tuned everybody for the ultimate condo guide for buying on the orange line corridor. It will include all the listings from 20 buildings, comps for 1 & 2BR in each building, etc.

And do become a fan of the Facebook group and Facebook business page of JustNewListings.com ... just search justnewlistings in facebook to find it.

jay

 

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